00:03
and I'm Fredrick Philip Von Weiss and thank
00:06
you for consuming the Thunder nerds a
00:08
conversation with people behind the
00:10
technology what they do and do tech good
00:13
ah don't tech hey everybody we're with
00:16
Trent Walton welcome to the show thanks
00:18
for having me yes thank you so much for
00:20
being here we're at a vent apart live on
00:22
Tuesday October 9th I believe and yeah
00:26
we're with you so I have you on the show
00:28
it's gonna be here thanks yeah did you
00:31
mind providing a little bit of contact
00:34
for our audience that obviously will
00:36
know that you work with Dave and what
00:38
that means and a little bit about who
00:40
you are yeah I work with two of my best
00:43
friends on the Internet Dave Rupert and
00:45
Regan ray we've been together for known
00:48
each other since we were high schoolers
00:49
but we've been together officially kind
00:51
of like as an LLC or whatever um for
00:54
about eleven and half twelve years oh
00:56
wow
00:56
so yeah we don't know and we don't know
00:58
anything else it's just been us together
01:01
working on the web and so my specialty I
01:05
don't know if I should have probably one
01:06
that doesn't have one Reagan gravitates
01:08
more towards just like just focusing on
01:10
design and my front end code and Dave is
01:12
pretty much like Fernand developer and I
01:15
answer email and pick some fonts and do
01:19
whatever like no one else wants to do
01:21
the other thing so I mean IIIi love to
01:25
write Fernanda loved HTML CSS I love the
01:28
design of typography I love grids I love
01:30
layout but most of my time is spent on
01:34
like I don't know emailing and
01:36
discussions and debates and things like
01:39
that debates what I yeah you know come
01:43
on to make dreams we work on there's
01:45
always people things to be dealt with
01:47
then there are those people they always
01:49
want things their way
01:50
strong people yeah I would be cool if it
01:54
wasn't for all the people people that
01:59
paper projects that they weren't done oh
02:01
yeah oh we're we talking about clients
02:02
that's different clans are the best
02:04
thing they've met people in general I
02:07
wasn't trying to single out our above
02:11
people it's a high gloss and
02:14
on above yeah hold me on none of this I
02:17
guess we did but you know what I'm
02:19
saying yeah kind of to be the the
02:22
overarching theme of the day I think is
02:24
people ops right like making people
02:27
being around people dealing with people
02:30
yeah I mean a lot of what I do is like
02:33
you have multiple people with different
02:37
talents but you try to sort of gain the
02:40
same perception and get everybody on the
02:42
same like you know when I say is is what
02:45
I might say is like fast and bloated in
02:47
terms of like it like a website build a
02:49
page speed you might go well this is
02:51
like optimize to make a ton of money so
02:52
I love it and so there there needs to be
02:54
like kind of a unification of perception
02:56
so a lot of what we do is have those
02:58
discussions and work with people so as
03:00
much as I joke it is isn't about right
03:03
or wrong necessarily but it is like
03:05
where are you coming from that does it
03:08
takes for most times yeah unless you
03:09
just want to build stuff by yourself
03:10
which that's always boring maybe a
03:12
little boring
03:13
unless you're doing Pig Latin that's not
03:16
boring
03:16
Alexis skills yeah that's true but yes
03:19
it's always interesting to find some
03:20
kind of challenge that you might not
03:22
have thought of conceived of and
03:24
somebody approaches you and says yes I
03:26
want to fly a kite to the Mars and
03:28
you're like I don't know why you would
03:29
do that but I'm on it that sounds
03:31
amazing yeah you got the cash I'm ready
03:35
to jump that wind in its solar sail okay
03:38
yeah what's your talk about tomorrow I
03:42
will be speaking about third-party
03:43
scripts third-party scripts not the
03:45
first or second yeah yeah those are okay
03:48
yeah third-party scripts and I mean the
03:51
way I got into it really wasn't by
03:52
choice like I said I much rather to
03:55
speak about fonts or like laying things
03:59
out but uh as we ship projects with
04:03
clients we did we do a lot of
04:04
prototyping so we'll deliver a prototype
04:06
and that prototype can often like
04:07
manifests itself is like this is you
04:10
know like front-end code maybe a little
04:13
bit of backend integration or whatever
04:14
but it's like the team's vision for what
04:17
like the optimal way the project could
04:19
be delivered so it's like here's a
04:21
package and then then there's like an
04:23
integration phase and that could mean
04:26
like the Casilla mess integrate
04:27
let's plug plug like crap CMS in but we
04:30
normally know about those we might even
04:31
have the hooks for those in the
04:33
prototype but there's usually more to it
04:36
than that and get the talk kind of gets
04:38
into like what happens when when things
04:40
are living online for a while what it
04:43
takes what kind of business logic and
04:45
API well what what is plugged in to make
04:47
the site real if it's a transactional
04:49
side or if it's like a social side with
04:50
ads or whatever the case may be all
04:53
right what are all the things that are
04:54
added to the site after like in leasing
04:57
just my own experience I deliver
04:58
something and so there's some some some
05:00
like I realized I'm guilty for a few
05:02
things there because I'm not being
05:03
proactive it going you know sometimes
05:05
I'll know there are ads and I will
05:06
assume if I'm making a performance
05:08
budget that there's going to be a
05:10
penalty baked in the prototype that I
05:12
deliver will be slower in the browser
05:14
and I'm like ready for it but a lot of
05:15
times I'm not asking around and the
05:17
organization may be so big that I
05:19
haven't done my work to have like like
05:22
led a discussion or let a process around
05:24
what else are we adding to the site so
05:26
we speak a lot about I can subset a
05:28
phone like maybe I have a like a
05:31
condensed font and all I want are
05:33
uppercase letters I can cut out tons of
05:34
characters and save some file size I can
05:37
minify code I can save some space there
05:39
I can optimize images and save space
05:41
there and what I found is like that
05:43
might I might feel like I have like
05:45
saved the world and I've gained a lot of
05:47
extra free kilobytes for other things
05:50
that may be more important like content
05:51
or or whatever but what I found is that
05:53
those optimizations pale in comparison
05:56
to the amount of extra stuff we're
05:58
adding 2/3 via third-party script so
06:00
guys save a few kilobytes there maybe
06:02
like a Meg of other stuff that I didn't
06:04
count or and so whose fault is that it's
06:07
probably mine but but so this talk is
06:09
sort of like exposing people who are
06:10
often not included in those discussions
06:12
about you know what business logic what
06:15
analytics what remarketing kind of what
06:19
kind of tools we're going to be adding
06:20
to this aside a be testing tools and are
06:22
those up for debate sometimes they're
06:24
not but maybe that's awesome because I
06:25
haven't been like included in the
06:27
discussion and they'd be raising privacy
06:29
concerns throughout so it's it's not I
06:32
mean of course for me it's gonna be like
06:34
I think we should have a less of this
06:36
stuff and there's I've noticed that
06:37
there's a lot of redundancy you know how
06:38
many different analytics tools do we
06:40
need
06:40
some sites may be loading three or four
06:42
or five because departments aren't
06:44
talking to each other
06:45
sure marketing might say hey we need a
06:47
droll on here exactly yeah and so maybe
06:50
we could unify some of these things so a
06:51
lot of it's just sort of exposing kind
06:53
of a whole new for me like if I go back
06:55
to my history on the web it's like I
06:57
liked image comps and laying things out
06:59
originally and then I got into HTML and
07:01
CSS and then JavaScript and then
07:03
performance and like multi device
07:05
responsive web design and then it's
07:07
grown is my perception and my like area
07:10
I wouldn't say expertise but like what I
07:12
feel responsible for his Grum and so
07:14
this is kind of for me the next one is
07:16
oh wow like third-party scripts have a
07:18
massive impact on the quality of a site
07:21
and then if you think about it from the
07:23
user perspective like browsing without
07:26
an ad blocker or a content blocker and
07:29
makes the web kind of unusable and then
07:30
no way is it like advocating for
07:33
blocking ads and not supporting sites
07:34
that you like but there is this thing if
07:36
there's like a chasm between what what
07:38
we're serving on the sites that we build
07:41
and what users will tolerate and so you
07:43
see content blockers you see things like
07:45
Firefox I think is now soon to be
07:47
implementing they have a content block
07:49
or a privacy tool in the browser but
07:51
they might be turning it on by default
07:52
so hopefully this is like starts more of
07:55
a discussion around how we can design
07:58
I wouldn't say around maybe I would say
08:00
personally let's design around
08:01
third-party scripts but how can we
08:02
design what third-party tools scripts
08:05
and services that the things that we're
08:06
doing are like like helpful to the
08:11
business like I I'm fine if somebody
08:13
wants to track look a little bit like if
08:15
I'm on their site and they want to know
08:16
well Trent like he looked at spatulas
08:20
and then he looked at the panini press
08:22
okay cool like we sort of have some data
08:24
I don't know whatever but you know my
08:26
dad right yeah Williams no Matt but and
08:30
I'm fine with ads too like I'm reading
08:32
an article I'm happy to support the the
08:35
content of the site and help them
08:36
generate some income of course but what
08:38
I don't want is like 14 megabytes of
08:40
other junk following me around on the
08:42
Internet so there is no like gold
08:45
standard for out of how to do this it's
08:47
it's sort of it's just kind of a mess
08:49
right now
08:50
and so I think in
08:53
and I will admit I wouldn't I'm not
08:55
gonna say this about anybody else but
08:56
it's for me I feel personally like
08:58
responsible as a designer and by builder
09:01
because I haven't been including myself
09:03
in those discussions it's not easy to be
09:05
like hey here's a table I'm gonna sit
09:06
down with you and we're gonna now I'm
09:08
gonna have all these opinions about
09:08
stuff that you were doing without any
09:10
kind of input earlier so there's tact
09:12
and there's a lot of like back to what I
09:14
was saying earlier about perception
09:16
unifying perception and almost um
09:18
sharing what you see with others as
09:20
opposed to saying we have too much of
09:21
this crap it's awful no one's going to
09:23
be moved by that but if you start
09:24
showing performance metrics and equated
09:26
you know PageSpeed than just general UX
09:30
to like maybe sales or performance of
09:32
the site you can get to see some results
09:34
so in a nutshell a big nutshell that's
09:37
what I'll be speaking about tomorrow
09:39
well it's hard to argue with those
09:41
numbers right yeah if you can get um it
09:43
is I think and that's the trick though
09:45
it's like we all knowing that I I wonder
09:49
and I've seen my own experience we have
09:52
a lot of data but we sort of
09:54
conveniently use the data like you can
09:56
you know if you want to support your own
09:58
idea or your own opinion about something
10:00
it's easy to find some piece of the
10:04
information that will do that so yeah
10:06
you know you get the numbers and you
10:08
have you have to make sure that like in
10:10
a broad sense like they're
10:11
representative of you what you want to
10:13
do and all that so yeah who do you think
10:16
are kind of like the biggest most
10:19
offenders of like third party yeah kind
10:22
of uses and I can answer this without
10:24
naming names thought I might they might
10:25
squeak out it I'll be really obvious
10:28
this is understandable
10:30
I think sites that sell things like I
10:32
mean obviously things like Amazon or
10:34
like a Best Buy
10:35
they need the you could that I would
10:37
yeah there there are funders because
10:38
there's like 30 or 40 or 50 requests
10:41
coming from not Best Buy com granted
10:44
some of those are CD ends so like that's
10:45
kind of like best practices they put you
10:47
post your images where they can be to
10:48
look like things like that quickly
10:50
images and other things but so sites
10:54
that sell things and then also obviously
10:57
like news sites so obviously need ads to
11:02
support
11:03
model in a lot of senses so there's a
11:05
lot of trackers a lot of ads the thing
11:08
about ads too is if you're on multiple
11:10
networks it's not just like one request
11:12
per ad there's a ton of analytics side
11:14
to it so those can be then get rather
11:17
large and then some of the you know the
11:18
biggest publications online tend to have
11:21
the biggest numbers and third parties I
11:23
I did a about a year ago I took the top
11:27
50 and Alexa sites in the US and just
11:31
did like a like you know how many what's
11:33
the average number of third parties I
11:34
indexed all of them and after all that
11:36
and I think like a nine thousand cell
11:38
spreadsheet just I wanted to see one
11:40
just to kind of see like okay this party
11:42
third party is low this third party
11:44
script is loading on like Microsoft for
11:46
this third party is loading on Best Buy
11:47
just to kind of get a nice for like what
11:50
popular sites are doing and for sure
11:52
definitely the news sites had the most
11:54
and so I'm I can't remember off the top
11:56
of my head you'll have to like look up
11:59
the slides but I mean there were double
12:00
digits easily for like you know you have
12:03
like your your your URL and there's like
12:07
double digits not double digit requests
12:09
double digits for different places
12:11
requests are coming from so that
12:13
excludes multiple so like for example if
12:15
a site has 20 that doesn't mean that
12:18
they have 20 requests it means that
12:19
there's just 20 different places that
12:21
content is coming from as I am at that
12:23
one web site so I can get out of hand
12:24
and then I think obviously it's
12:27
important to note too that some of those
12:28
are really really small so there's a
12:30
privacy implications you have to think
12:32
about like I mean that they're there
12:33
they may be small and file size but they
12:35
have a massive impact in like ethics
12:37
perhaps yeah but then there's some you
12:39
know there's some that are just small
12:40
and not a big deal but then there's some
12:42
that are like they block the rendering
12:44
of the page and they have you know tons
12:46
and tons of kilobytes to the the page
12:48
load itself so you know the impact can
12:50
be felt in a variety of ways well how do
12:54
we as a designers developers do a better
12:59
job of say leaving that pane on maybe a
13:05
small to medium sized business like what
13:07
what kind of things can we think about
13:09
and change right now mm-hmm well and one
13:13
thing I think is funny I've done I've
13:16
asked this question a lot too
13:17
other like agencies and web builder
13:19
friends that I've had and they've said
13:21
which I would have thought was not the
13:23
case was to utilize a tag manager and if
13:26
you've so like we can tag me right and
13:28
if you see tweets about their parties
13:30
it's almost like they put like and I
13:31
agree with these like there's a great
13:33
Harry Roberts tweet about third-party
13:35
scripts and it's like this is your
13:36
website and it just shows like oh I can
13:39
network requests panel and it's kind of
13:40
light and moderate like light to
13:42
moderate normal website and then it's
13:44
like this is your website on tag
13:45
managers and it's just like you know
13:46
hundreds of requests and a bunch of
13:48
extra stuff and that's that's true I
13:50
think of it like giving people a tag
13:52
managers they can start adding
13:54
third-party things here and there
13:55
without any structures aw I got an awful
13:57
idea but um I've had some friends who
14:00
like will run kind of that admin sign of
14:03
things for their clients and they say
14:05
you know to get everything on a tag
14:07
manager if you have purpose to what you
14:09
were doing and you're and you were
14:10
having did that discussion to figure out
14:12
what do we need to add what are our
14:13
business goals what are we trying to
14:15
achieve and how can we do that in a
14:16
performant way on the web like like if
14:19
you have everything in a tag manager
14:20
then you have your inventory already
14:22
done but if you don't have everything in
14:24
a tag manager then you're you know there
14:26
are a lot of tools you can use online
14:27
like go with com webpagetest now has
14:30
Simon earns like request mapper so it
14:34
shows like little like dots and bubbles
14:35
like like a solar system the requests if
14:38
it gets too too large but you can see
14:41
those associations but I mean if you
14:43
have it in tag manager and you sort of
14:44
mandate this is how we're gonna load
14:46
anything that's not like part of the
14:47
website it's a way to kind of say okay
14:49
what do we need what's maybe violating
14:51
our performance budget if you don't have
14:53
a performance budget it's like why are
14:54
sites too slow so what can we cut out so
14:56
it's an easy way to sort of expose that
14:58
to everyone we'd have to kind of maybe
15:00
not not get past the password around do
15:02
that too much and I think that's it
15:04
that's one thing the other day like
15:05
obviously is just to talk more about it
15:08
I have not been proactive in the past
15:11
like in years past so I think that in
15:13
over the past couple of years is I've
15:15
put more attention on this as the
15:18
results have been better because I've
15:19
been asking questions and like saying I
15:22
think we have too much of this stuff
15:23
this isn't really compelling but showing
15:25
people with numbers and like running
15:27
performance tests and taking the time to
15:30
make a spreadsheet isn't
15:31
to be able to the top decides that can
15:32
just be the site and that I'm working on
15:34
and maybe even like a competitive
15:36
analysis of like you know two other
15:37
sites in a similar like business sector
15:40
I'm just to say hey look like this other
15:42
company's not using half as much as we
15:44
are their sites yeah so that can be
15:46
compelling as well I mean even having
15:48
that tag manager to is to be able to
15:51
show like look at all these things that
15:53
we have rather than it being hidden in
15:56
an include file yeah yeah and who knows
15:58
anymore multiple so I think that's the
16:00
biggest thing one include file sounds
16:02
like kind of awesome too because you're
16:05
like this is where we're putting
16:06
everything but if you're just drop these
16:08
on some of the layout files and then
16:10
three weeks later and you know you have
16:11
a new hire and somebody else drops a few
16:13
things in there you can get really messy
16:15
and really be pretty awful quickly if
16:16
you're disorganized so yeah I think
16:19
being organized whether it's tag manager
16:21
or not but that that brings to mind of
16:23
the time managers thing can be intense
16:24
because the first time I got into Google
16:26
tag manager it's really enticing like
16:28
it's like shopping for new toys nothing
16:32
this I'll take that yeah yeah and if you
16:34
don't I could see if you don't get to
16:36
work on the web if you're not like
16:38
deploying any changes or designing
16:40
something for yourself if you're
16:41
contributing to the Speight in that way
16:44
and this is the one portal you have to
16:46
access the site it can be kind of
16:48
intoxicating you're you're wanting to I
16:50
can change the site you know I have to
16:52
do is like drag this into the magically
16:55
loaded onto every page yeah so nice
17:05
problems before you even get the problem
17:10
at hand how do you communicate that even
17:12
with your team with who you're working
17:15
with and you know eventually like what
17:17
if that situation has to like affect the
17:22
user in some way like how do you
17:23
dissipate those goals yeah I think it
17:25
can depend I mean if it's if the site
17:27
already exists and you're doing a
17:29
redesign we typically do an analysis or
17:32
an audit of everything so if like we're
17:34
kind of generally keeping the same brand
17:36
for example we the same visual style
17:39
will do sort of like an accessibility
17:41
check and make sure things like color
17:42
contrast or
17:43
we'll do it like aux hada and just like
17:46
okay this this part of the users like
17:48
the checkout flow is really weird I know
17:50
a lot about changing it and with that we
17:52
will say and it's usually lumped into
17:54
performance like an analysis it's like
17:57
you know this is the white like web page
17:59
test results will run in multiple places
18:01
like this is what PageSpeed says and
18:03
bring it up in the context of that but
18:05
we're very careful to not just make it
18:07
about performance even though that's
18:09
like the biggest piece of it but I think
18:10
anytime you have lots of scripts there's
18:14
a bit of like a weight like a smell to
18:16
the site like like it can load slowly
18:19
and whether you and even like the device
18:21
like that can cause processor lag so if
18:23
you're on it like a little powered
18:25
device you can kind of notice there's
18:26
like a jank to the scroll so we try to
18:29
just you know ultimately boil it down to
18:32
like business metrics which is like kind
18:34
of not a kickoff meeting sort of a thing
18:36
if we're raising these questions early
18:38
on like I think it can help and then it
18:40
kind of opens the door to people to ask
18:42
for like more you know if it's a new
18:45
client murari and redesigning a site you
18:48
can kind of ask for more detailed data
18:50
if it's if it's a new site then it's
18:52
it's kind of easier I think but you have
18:54
to give to again be proactive if you
18:56
don't ask and then all of a sudden
18:57
you're about to shoot this side like
18:58
okay it's a week we're gonna ship the
18:59
site add these 20 things well that's my
19:02
father's the designer for not bringing
19:04
it up so that's part of the like
19:05
discovery process or whatever one you
19:07
want to call it from the beginning it's
19:08
what what I mean in that and if you
19:10
think about it that really should kind
19:12
of come up earlier like using these
19:14
tools for data to you know like
19:18
determine what kind of products you
19:21
recommend or something like that or how
19:23
that should be a discussion from the
19:24
beginning but if it hasn't have been in
19:26
the past then like now is definitely the
19:28
time what what and that's the way we
19:30
just straight up strictly ask it's like
19:32
what are we gonna be using that is it
19:34
that is not going to be living on your
19:36
server or your CD and and so it tends to
19:39
that one question tends to get you all
19:41
the way because there's usually there's
19:43
no there's no response okay well great
19:46
yeah I mean to to worry about unless you
19:49
know maybe there are missing some
19:50
opportunities that we can make some
19:51
recommendations but but more often than
19:54
not it's like oh yeah we have stuff that
19:56
we're gonna
19:56
and then it gets into a discussion about
19:58
progressive enhancement like some of
20:00
these third-party things are like
20:01
moderniser and things that are like
20:04
acceptable but may not be necessary
20:06
anymore
20:06
a lot of the audits that we do it's hard
20:08
to argue against like a network again I
20:13
know that I would I mean if we're if
20:14
that is needed to support the business
20:15
then obviously obviously but like some
20:18
some things that we may not you know if
20:19
we're gonna be coding a new front-end
20:20
where there's new CSS maybe we don't
20:22
need to support certain things and so we
20:25
don't need like polyfills that we used
20:26
to so yeah I think it's hard to because
20:31
you'll get to a point with an old site
20:33
where people will go you know what I
20:35
don't know what that does I don't know
20:37
why we need it ask this department or
20:40
that department or the other department
20:41
hmm so no good answer for this but I
20:45
have been known to say well we're gonna
20:47
rip it out and if anyone complains
20:49
before like we ship it that that would
20:52
be the recommendation and usually the
20:53
clients we work with like yeah fine like
20:55
we need to move on this let's just clean
20:57
house you know if if the redesign
21:00
process is three months or something
21:01
like that you can say and over here we
21:03
are like here's the new layouts and
21:05
typically dealt and again if you're
21:08
bringing this up at the beginning of the
21:09
process there's likely gonna be QA and
21:11
everybody's gonna see it everybody's
21:13
gonna kick the tires and if you can if
21:15
you explicitly say remember like we've
21:17
removed these you know everything that's
21:19
what the site is all new so if you're if
21:21
you're thinking something's gonna be
21:22
there like check and you we can seek
21:24
those things out but a lot of times it's
21:25
okay you're right a lot of its just like
21:28
a junk drawer type thing a really and
21:33
you're fine and so yeah a lot of times
21:34
most of the stuff is like it was added
21:38
for for one thing I mean and if you
21:39
think about the nature I'll be on a call
21:41
with like a team that we're working with
21:42
and I'll and someone I'll kind of that
21:44
I've never heard met or heard from a
21:46
little pipe in ten you know I have a
21:47
script any dad because we're running a
21:49
campaign tomorrow
21:50
no go cool and that'll be there for
21:52
years unless you remember to take it out
21:54
so back to the tag managers thing like I
21:55
haven't and then I haven't like we
21:58
haven't done this yet you usually did
22:01
this stuff is way more lockdown and
22:02
somebody else has control over all of
22:04
those things but that's kind of the
22:05
process we're in now let's just use tag
22:07
manager for everything usually they're
22:09
already using it
22:10
manager but there they don't know what
22:11
else is there so we haven't fight but
22:13
we're about to do that with with the
22:15
client where it's like this is the line
22:16
that we were drawing and I get this you
22:20
don't know third party anything if it's
22:21
not in the tag manager so we'll see how
22:23
that goes but I think like I think if
22:25
you have that inventory that you don't
22:26
have to go it's not like well it can be
22:28
a junk drawer but it's one that's been
22:29
neatly organized yeah yeah with like
22:36
this little specific space for
22:38
everything yeah trackers yeah you know
22:46
ads for things you just bought yeah yeah
22:53
yeah I didn't know what it was called
22:55
until recently that's called remarketing
22:56
about 90% people like yeah I know what
22:58
that is why do you why did it take you
22:59
so long to know but yeah it's like if
23:00
you're at Amazon and you buy a spatula
23:02
and you go to the Weather Channel app
23:04
and you see a spatula on your site I
23:06
already I got this bad but it's really
23:12
effective everybody that I've talked to
23:15
but it works yeah yeah unfortunately
23:19
that's the landscape we live in yeah
23:22
I'll take a certain amount of that stuff
23:24
knowing that that's the way that things
23:25
need to work like I would trade that
23:27
kind of like I would even caught
23:29
annoying it's more just like dumb
23:31
computers like we're trying too hard
23:32
it's fine because it's because it
23:33
doesn't work in most cases but like if
23:36
we could be more transparent about how
23:37
trackers work and I think it's actually
23:40
more like people need to do the work of
23:42
understanding it's really easy to add
23:44
ads and add things and not be like
23:46
accountable for what they're doing
23:47
yeah so we have to do that that kind of
23:49
work as well but I would try to do like
23:51
a little bit of like a few extra
23:53
kilobytes like moderate like tracking
23:55
and somebody needs to like watch who's
23:57
doing this and maybe there's like and
23:59
then this is a good idea have like an
24:00
impartial maybe nonprofit like third
24:03
party like you can get some sort of like
24:06
gold standard like we're doing it the
24:07
right way we file reports with what our
24:09
trackers do so you don't find out if
24:11
it's some like mega corp evil Corp type
24:13
thing is like this been tracking me and
24:14
like is that by spatula one spatula it's
24:21
fine and I'll have an egg fork anyway
24:24
one of those two prompt things yeah
24:27
we're trying to remarket to me remember
24:31
egg for yeah I'll take an egg yeah yeah
24:38
true crime Oh true crime no I don't
24:42
haven't stabbed anybody with this thank
24:51
you so much for being on the show you
24:52
for having me yeah thanks it does fee
24:55
tuned everybody we're gonna have a lot
24:56
more possibly yeah today probably
24:59
tomorrow we have people coming in from
25:01
random yeah the street Randa so randos