00:00
Welcome to thunder nerds I'm
00:03
Brian Hinton, I'm Jenell Pizaro, and I'm Frederick
00:06
Philipp Von Weiss, and thank you for
00:08
consuming the Thunder nerds a
00:10
conversation with the people behind the
00:13
technology love what they do and do take
00:16
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00:20
thank you everyone
00:25
for joining us again, we honestly
00:27
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00:54
love to get your review and read it on
00:57
the air and speaking of which I'm gonna
01:00
read one on the air and it is titled a
01:04
platform for new and old school Tech's
01:07
by D Lamoni believe it's how you said
01:10
it's true conversations with real people
01:13
behind the technology from early Atari
01:16
gaming to the latest UX tools with a
01:18
real life day-to-day implementation from
01:21
going to Mars getting your MBA self
01:24
helps with crowd-sourced development to
01:26
building your tech empire the
01:28
conversations start here thunder nerds
01:30
creativity is from the heart oh thank
01:34
you that's perfect that's beautiful good
01:36
here thank you so much yeah you know it
01:38
took me a minute to think about that one
01:39
for Mars because we did have a gentleman
01:41
that talked about Mars and how he's on a
01:43
project about that but you know I think
01:45
you got something yeah so we will be
01:48
reading your questions live so if you
01:51
have any questions for Pedro definitely
01:53
give us a tweet that'd be pretty cool or
01:57
you know ask them in the YouTube
01:59
comments or tweet us directly like we're
02:02
totally cool with that I mean I'm cool
02:03
with it do it it's fine yeah the YouTube
02:06
blocked the YouTube live chat yeah I
02:09
mean that's fine that's totally fine
02:10
yeah do that or or tweet us that's fine
02:12
tweeting what do do
02:14
you do know how you do so we also have a
02:20
patreon and that's pretty super cool our
02:23
patreon gives you access to super cool
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fun stuff um really just we love love
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love love love you guys so much and we
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you know whatever yeah we definitely
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love giving you some content and I think
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being a patron on patreon is a really
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great way to get that extra sneak peek
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stuff that you can't get anywhere else
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so yeah yeah go to patreon.com/scishow
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or don i adore me.com slash thunder
03:11
nerds boom do it without any further ado
03:14
let's go ahead and welcome our guest
03:16
everyone we have a super interesting and
03:18
awesome guy that actually came back on
03:21
the show we had him way back in the day
03:23
well and 2007 I believe Brian right no
03:26
no early 2008 oh yeah and 18 excuse me
03:29
we have senior product designer speaker
03:34
musician coder Pedro Marquez welcome to
03:38
the show well thank you thank you thank
03:41
you for having me
03:41
after that intro I have you man yeah
03:53
Pedro how would your Halloween do you do
03:55
Halloween over there it's not a big of a
03:59
thing here because they have another
04:00
celebration on the bird that's very
04:03
similar well yeah we do you do see like
04:05
some kids going out of school dressed as
04:07
like I don't know pumpkin heads and
04:10
stuff like that but it's not big of a
04:12
deal and you need November there's a
04:13
different one that's I actually have to
04:16
buy candy otherwise kids would throw
04:18
stuff at my window so I mean I'm right
04:24
now I'm in Amsterdam in the Netherlands
04:26
she
04:28
okay so wait wait wait before we I'm
04:30
sorry before we get to that do you mind
04:32
if I just show off my Halloween mask
04:33
yeah oh yeah it cuz it's pretty cool
04:36
would say I went to Spencer's gifts and
04:38
I said I need the handsomest mask you
04:40
could find stuff and me love them for
04:56
fifty or five dollars a mask
04:58
apparently they go like hotcakes yes our
05:02
audio listeners it is my face it's a
05:13
half past midnight right now so I'm in
05:15
my bed time oh my gosh thank you so much
05:18
for being with us no thank you for
05:21
having me this is really really really
05:22
exciting and it's not that like
05:24
otherwise I'll be playing video games
05:25
and I'm doing something way more useful
05:27
so that's great I did want to ask you
05:31
know what is it like being like
05:34
Brazilian and in kind of Amsterdam kind
05:36
of culture it's it's definitely
05:40
different I'd say because culturally
05:42
their countries are like I think they
05:45
couldn't be difficult it could it be
05:46
like far apart and not just
05:48
geographically but presenters we're
05:50
super warm and you know like we have
05:53
this we're famous for that and it's it's
05:57
it's it's interesting because Amsterdam
05:59
it's a very international City so
06:01
everyone here is from somewhere else
06:03
even even from within the Netherlands so
06:06
everyone's like super welcoming and
06:08
whenever you say like oh I'm Brazilian
06:10
people get super excited they don't want
06:12
to ask questions about it so it's
06:14
definitely welcoming and but is yeah
06:16
culturally and this thing's it's it's a
06:19
it takes some getting used to do you
06:21
make things up about Brazil like
06:23
something just crazy everyday yeah I was
06:30
at a party once and this guy's like oh
06:32
you guys really have like monkeys and
06:34
stuff I'm like oh yeah I'm actually
06:36
super sad that I couldn't bring my
06:38
monkey with me
06:40
I even made up a name for it and is back
06:45
home and I didn't actually I did I
06:47
forgot to tell you as a lie so like
06:49
through like half of the party guy
06:50
actually believed and he talked to
06:52
someone else about it so that was you
06:59
know I remember a story you were telling
07:00
on one of your videos and I don't
07:03
remember which conference you were at
07:05
but you were talking about how you got
07:06
this Google device for your air
07:08
condition and you were setting it up and
07:10
you know you were going into all the
07:11
whole reactive kind of talk and it was
07:15
about how you wanted it warming your
07:17
house when you came home because it was
07:18
so cold so you were trying to like go
07:20
back and forth with that and made me
07:22
think of that do you still do you still
07:23
put the temperature way up yeah actually
07:26
I just took off my hoodie because it's
07:28
now it's I was like mmm it's like 16 16
07:31
degrees outside like Celsius and I'm
07:34
like mmm I think I feel like you know 22
07:37
degrees like summer vibe it's nice so
07:39
it's quite a bit too warm right now but
07:41
then probably the NASA turn it off
07:43
because it knows that I don't want to I
07:45
want that I want the warmth but I want
07:46
to pay for it makes it hey Brian
07:49
translate the Celsius for me yeah I can
07:52
yeah I want me to pulp Google I think is
07:58
about 50 wow that sounds actually nice
08:02
[Music]
08:04
yeah that's on the roll go with that 50
08:08
you are working at a new place since
08:13
last we talked you mind telling us where
08:15
you're at now yes um what the last time
08:18
we talked I was at booking.com
08:20
and right now I'm at I didn't and I
08:22
didn't is a payment provider itself in
08:24
tech and we provide payments for like
08:27
everyone so here in Europe like many
08:31
people asked like oh where do you work
08:32
I'm like I just open your bank statement
08:34
and you know you'll see me bare face
08:43
they're taking money out of your account
08:45
payments for everyone like a big big
08:48
companies like Facebook Google Spotify
08:51
Netflix all these people and
08:54
it's it's nice it's a definitely
08:56
something new for me but it's great so
08:59
how did you go from booking to there
09:01
what was the was the transition I think
09:04
I wanted to go like a baby's smaller
09:07
company because booking a lot of people
09:09
don't don't realize but its massive and
09:12
it's like fifteen fifteen hundred people
09:16
working like fifteen thousand people
09:18
working in the company is gigantic and I
09:21
wanted maybe a smaller company that's
09:22
like growing a lot so why don't you
09:24
catch something not like fully grown but
09:26
in the path to that and I just saw the
09:30
opportunity and I talked to the to the
09:32
head of design there Nick and we hit it
09:35
off and I really like the company the
09:36
culture and the people and I know I saw
09:39
I thought okay I can grow and I can add
09:42
a lot of value and that's fun nice yeah
09:47
so woody would you say your day-to-day
09:49
is then there now my day-to-day um my
09:54
first thing literally the first thing I
09:57
do every morning after I get my coffee
09:58
is take a look at I don't know take a
10:02
look at people people feed people's
10:03
feedback I have this little nifty
10:05
dashboard with feedback from users and
10:08
tickets support tickets and stuff so I
10:11
just like to take a look at those and
10:12
see just what's going on and seeing that
10:14
maybe someone is asking something but
10:17
then it's actually some part of the UX
10:19
that's broken then and people might not
10:21
know about so that's literally the first
10:24
thing I do every day
10:27
then I participate a lot on product
10:30
decisions and I usually sit down with
10:32
like the front of front-end team to
10:34
figure out what we're gonna where we are
10:36
with things and what we're gonna build
10:38
next and so on and some days I get to
10:40
design yeah it's a lot of just making
10:45
sure design happens within my my product
10:49
and making sure things move forward and
10:53
just keeping the user the user in mind
10:56
but I like that ensured that design
11:00
happens I like that that's a good yeah
11:03
because a lot of a lot of design
11:05
actually happens outside of design
11:07
you know like to be able to design
11:10
something nice or something very good
11:12
you need first you need someone to
11:15
enable that mind set on higher level of
11:17
organization so that's something that I
11:20
really enjoy doing and I'm usually good
11:23
at making my problems other people's
11:25
problems and making them care about it
11:27
so that's what I like the big things you
11:33
you bring there to is you you know your
11:35
perspective on AI and machine learning
11:37
and I think Janelle has a thing about
11:40
that that we're gonna talk about right
11:41
well yeah but I really wanted to know
11:43
before that really tell us some ways
11:46
that we could kind of learn how to make
11:49
our problems other people's problems
11:51
that they care about I guess not
11:54
necessarily be like hey you know we're
12:03
like hey I have this problem and then
12:05
you know people might not care about it
12:07
but you make them care right like this
12:10
is a very important thing like let's be
12:12
let's have this thing be important
12:14
together right let's both care about it
12:16
let's both have some weight in the game
12:18
some skin in the game I guess how do you
12:20
have had about you enough it's a matter
12:22
of framing because like you said like
12:25
Holly this is a big problem let's make
12:27
it let's solve it that it's great when
12:31
their works but sometimes you know when
12:33
we designers we keep making jokes like
12:35
oh we want to sit at a table but then
12:37
when we get to the table we have no idea
12:39
what to do and I think this seat at the
12:42
table board is this is where like okay
12:45
we have this clear we have this clear
12:48
you wax problem we have to fix yeah it's
12:51
a problem but how are you gonna tell
12:53
people that this is a problem if you're
12:54
talking to someone a commercial person
12:56
you need to talk into terms like hey
12:59
with we solve this problem we can add
13:02
this in this feature out quicker and
13:04
more quickly or we can do this and these
13:07
other thing and this will help you have
13:08
a better narrative to sell things to
13:10
your prospects so you just made it just
13:13
make this their problem if you're
13:15
talking to a product person or more like
13:17
a more strategic internal product person
13:20
you can go like okay you
13:21
we fix this we guess let we get less
13:23
tickets for support you forget this
13:25
tickets and support we spend less money
13:27
in support and support gets has more
13:30
time to spend solving that other big
13:32
problem so it's just a matter of knowing
13:35
the the end goal of what you want to
13:38
design tip 4 and just showing to
13:42
everyone that if they help you also
13:44
solving a problem of their own that
13:46
maybe they didn't even know they had
13:48
what what are some of the biggest
13:49
challenges that you come across when
13:51
you're trying to do that I think we even
13:56
as designers we still have a lot of a
13:57
lot of the know lipstick on a pig
14:00
situation where people think of design
14:02
Ella's or like an afterthought and I
14:08
think that that's that's the probably
14:11
the hardest part just trying to show
14:13
people that a designers should should be
14:16
included in the conversation from day
14:18
one and and for me that's the hardest
14:21
thing
14:22
so sometimes someone will set off and
14:24
make a commercial decision that will
14:26
affect the product but maybe a product
14:29
designer or even like a product manager
14:31
wasn't involved in that decision and
14:33
that will just be bad because that's not
14:35
very good teamwork so it's literally
14:38
just showing people that what we do
14:41
matters a lot and it's not an
14:43
afterthought and is a very it's a vital
14:46
part of the strategy and you should have
14:49
a say Nani as a nose and and how to's
14:52
that's the hard part
14:53
yeah bringing everyone together at the
14:55
same table on the on the topic at hand
14:58
yeah it's that's it's really it's really
15:00
hard but we're designers we have a card
15:02
to play because we're very like you know
15:04
like with the empathy the user research
15:06
understanding user needs and all that I
15:08
think knowing how you use that card
15:11
also in a corporate environment it's
15:13
it's it's very handy we're people people
15:17
have you know how do you go about using
15:20
those kinds of skills with what you kind
15:23
of focus in on which is artificial
15:25
intelligence and machine learning yes so
15:28
that's actually a great question because
15:31
the main reason I got into it was the
15:35
that we're not involved on it but then
15:38
if you wanted to look at look at it like
15:40
why we're not we designers not involved
15:42
in these decisions is that we might
15:44
maybe lack the technical aspect of it so
15:47
actually knowing how it works and how
15:49
how to use it how to plan for it and
15:52
that's a it's a weird weird part so like
15:56
okay if I get to learn a bit of the
15:59
technical part then I have more
16:01
knowledge to actually sit at a table and
16:03
talk to your data scientist to everyone
16:05
and just slide my perspective in and
16:08
just put make my problems their problems
16:11
and then everyone solving all the
16:13
problems so that's why that's me the
16:15
main reason I got interested on this and
16:17
just to see how far I I need to go in
16:21
order to be able to help all the
16:24
decisions that people make in that
16:25
that's why yeah absolutely that sounds
16:28
killer like did you just um like pick up
16:31
little things here and there kind of
16:33
like for fun and then kind of got into
16:37
it or how did you fall into you know
16:39
literally designing for artificial
16:42
intelligence and for you know the
16:45
computer learning right like how do you
16:48
how do you even design for that kind of
16:49
stuff yeah so uh Becca booking when I
16:52
was I was I worked for quite a while
16:54
with like consumer psychology and it's
16:57
just really borderline creepy thing that
17:01
you're just trying to understand you
17:03
know like mental models how people think
17:05
and then how you can help them maybe
17:09
think better about one decision and
17:11
thinking less about another one because
17:12
that's not important right now so how do
17:14
you just help them focus and when you
17:17
start learning about that you see that
17:18
it has a structure and people think
17:21
similarly the outputs are different
17:23
because they have different baggages
17:25
they have a different past and that's
17:27
basic rep machine learning sounds like
17:29
oh that's that's kind of cool and this
17:31
new team opened up and they were solely
17:34
focus on machine learning and
17:36
recommendation and ranking and those
17:38
like well that sounds fun let's try and
17:41
go for it and then I did and bringing
17:44
the design in it was great because the
17:46
whole point of the machine learning
17:47
thing is that it
17:48
from from data and giving it the right
17:52
data is crucial and as a designer you
17:54
can just try to come up with ways to fit
17:57
interaction stuff and into that and just
18:01
it helps a lot so it's it's a little bit
18:03
of designing being visible but it's
18:07
there's a lot of work to do there yeah I
18:09
like how that one talk you were
18:11
describing how to understand the
18:13
fundamentals of machine learning where
18:15
you were showing pictures have I don't
18:18
know if you remember this one but you
18:19
were showing pictures of an apple and
18:21
this is not an apple and there was some
18:24
fruit that people didn't know that
18:25
you're like yeah this is fruit you may
18:26
be only fine in Brazil yeah yeah exactly
18:28
I still don't know how to pronounce the
18:30
name of that fruit in English I still I
18:33
always put that into presentation and
18:35
I'm always like why I don't know how to
18:37
pronounce this I don't know why I do
18:38
this to me well it's funny I think
18:40
everybody got a kick out of it but but
18:42
the the point of it is like it's it's
18:44
not just some kind of magical Max
18:46
Headroom kind of thing or like Watson
18:48
you know you're plugging it into the
18:51
wall and it just figures things out it's
18:53
it's about those it's about training
18:55
it's about behavior right exactly yeah
18:58
the whole point of the ODE of that is
18:59
just to deem it fight timmy defy it
19:02
did I say that correctly yeah Damita
19:03
fire too just so like this is not magic
19:06
this is literally 1+1 differentiation
19:10
differentiating apples and oranges and
19:12
it's as simple as that
19:14
I you actually if you want to code a
19:16
machine learning model you can do like a
19:17
hello world machine learning model with
19:19
six lines of code and that's it and that
19:22
just takes the magic out of it and just
19:24
makes it a more an informed discussion
19:27
then I don't know like a I would take
19:30
over the word discussion well should we
19:32
fear AI at all like what is Han like
19:36
what see what secret
19:38
we should fear us we are the ones that
19:43
bring demise upon ourselves Jesus recent
19:49
kind of creepy thing to me I think I
19:51
miss Turkey or gree and Greece or Greece
19:54
somewhere in Europe they're doing a
19:57
border AI thing where when you come to
20:00
the border they're going to scan
20:02
face for basically whether you lie about
20:04
questions and it'll determine whether a
20:08
border guard comes up and inspects your
20:10
belongings Wow yeah creepy to me yeah
20:16
right
20:17
the be the biggest problem of the word
20:19
is like putting these things to
20:21
commercial use which is you always gonna
20:24
get people trying to make shitty things
20:26
out of it and like enforcing things that
20:29
shooting be enforced like borders but
20:32
yeah I don't know I'm not very scared of
20:34
it it's more of a it's more about this
20:37
question yeah it's more a discussion on
20:43
whether we as humans of what we do what
20:47
we want what kind of decisions we want
20:49
to outsource to a thing that we don't
20:52
have full control off that's more we
20:54
were we be our demise or a a I I think
20:58
it's always us you mean like are we
21:01
going to have robots for lack of a
21:04
better term be our governments yeah it's
21:08
exactly so that could be something that
21:10
could potentially could go could happen
21:12
there's if you you can you can talk
21:15
about that in a in a very you know in a
21:17
way that it would make sense and people
21:19
might buy into it but that might not be
21:22
the best solution I want very simple
21:24
example is that though there's a bunch
21:26
of companies doing there's like cancer
21:28
Rick they can identify if it's something
21:32
like skin skin skin cancer or not with
21:34
the better precision in doctors because
21:36
it's a very visual thing so machines do
21:38
that tasks matter but if we let's say
21:42
now that all the doctors are using that
21:44
so they will stop having to make a
21:48
decision whether something is cancer or
21:50
not because the machine would be doing
21:51
for it so in us in a way we're done we
21:53
might be dumping us down and outsourcing
21:57
that knowledge and that's my fear
21:58
so is that right now I don't think it's
22:01
bad but someday might be a problem yeah
22:05
it is kind of terrifying to have to like
22:08
think about that right like think about
22:09
like the good and also the bad and I
22:11
think maybe you probably have to
22:13
experience it a lot especially at
22:15
onion because you know you've got
22:17
people's financial kind of futures and
22:21
life to you know design for so you know
22:26
how do you go about like looking at all
22:27
the repercussions that could possibly be
22:29
you know good or bad that come from
22:32
designing for machine learning and
22:36
artificial intelligence yeah so
22:39
especially not in a financial industry
22:41
it's a very old industry of course and
22:43
is industry that's in in general
22:46
reluctant to change a little bit and
22:49
when you talk about machine learning and
22:51
things like that then you get to the
22:53
point where the machine
22:56
they're like the computer says it has no
22:57
situation where you don't know why said
23:00
no and that's the big problem because
23:02
for me is that's and also the financial
23:04
industry cuz everyone people in the
23:07
financial industry they like to have
23:08
control over how things operate how
23:10
things work and if you put that in a
23:12
black box that outputs a message and hey
23:15
here is your new system work up and
23:18
running but we don't know how it works
23:20
it just works that's not a very good
23:22
thing to have so the challenges that
23:26
come with design on that is building on
23:28
trust it's a lot on the UIC designer
23:31
working that way in two phases
23:33
in the initial phase on conceptualizing
23:35
the product and in the face of making
23:39
people trust on it and just like a
23:42
booking for example when I'll want to
23:45
recommend something to someone I would
23:47
go up go up and say like hey I think you
23:50
want to go to this place because of this
23:52
this and that because I have control of
23:55
how the Machine made that decision and
23:57
in the financial industry that's that's
23:59
a problem and also add in so it's
24:01
something that we still have to figure
24:02
out as an industry I love that you said
24:07
trust you that's like amazing that you
24:09
have that in mind when you're designing
24:11
that you want to trust you have your
24:13
users trust you in every sense of the
24:16
way right like with their data yeah yeah
24:19
exactly and not just Ally any cuz it if
24:23
you a I machine learning the whole point
24:27
of it is just making better decisions
24:29
but a better is very subjective and but
24:34
sometimes it's mathematica thematically
24:36
or statistically not and you have to
24:38
convince that person like hey you can
24:41
trust me
24:42
and here's why you can trust me and
24:43
that's the part where US designers are
24:45
can like a stir it because we're great
24:48
at that because like like I said before
24:50
we empathize and we talk to people and
24:53
not a lot of people do that as their
24:56
daily job
24:57
yeah it's Five's is nice but the
25:01
machines would not take over I will not
25:03
allow them you have any control over
25:06
that according to just being you on
25:08
you'll be a partner yeah rebellion on
25:11
the uprising against the AI when they
25:15
when they finally take comfort of like
25:17
Oh pinched or helped us so that's my
25:22
whole plan all along
25:26
so lately what was that we'll be using
25:30
the foam finger to lead exactly for our
25:36
listeners there is a foam finger being
25:38
held up they might listen to you more
25:44
because like look at his hand and finger
25:46
yeah what is that thing bestow that upon
25:52
him he must be smart all right whatever
25:53
buddy you need organic slang for us
25:59
humans new organic well Jenelle I know
26:06
you got a head out right yeah I do I
26:08
have to spend time with my little
26:10
brother that I don't get to see um so it
26:13
was nice meeting you Pedro báez great
26:16
whew I did you know so uh you know one
26:20
of the things I wanted to talk to you
26:22
about Pedro is I like the statement that
26:24
you put in your LinkedIn bio
26:25
and if you don't mind me reading it and
26:27
asking you about it we go from the AI
26:30
I'm curious I ouch I know you can't go
26:34
into great details because it's you know
26:36
internal technologies and things like
26:38
that but I'm curious what does AI offer
26:41
in
26:42
the financial sector like what what can
26:45
a I do to help individuals yep so for
26:51
example the product that I work with
26:52
it's a fraud prevention to prevention to
26:56
so it basically is stop bad actors for
26:59
performing payments and doing all kinds
27:00
of shady stuff like kind of money
27:02
laundering or all the just stealing a
27:06
piece of someone's identity and buying
27:08
stuff so my whole job is to stop that to
27:12
build a tool to stop that and this tool
27:14
is largely based on rules like if some a
27:18
credit card holder from Utah its buying
27:21
something in Finland and deliver it to
27:23
Japan that looks shady red flag possibly
27:28
yeah possibly so but this rules
27:31
historically they've been they're
27:33
configured by they are configured by all
27:36
the companies because they know their
27:37
customers and they know their business
27:38
but sometimes with machine learning we
27:42
can help them make better decisions
27:43
because we have more data so areas in
27:46
this kind of in this kind of situations
27:49
that machine learning can play a huge
27:52
role but yeah like I said we still have
27:54
a lot to figure out on this transparency
27:56
and and actually how how we can
27:59
implement it as an industry not just as
28:01
a Dean but yeah this is one of one
28:03
application of it just for actually try
28:06
and stop fraudsters for doing bad things
28:09
to people what do you think about some
28:10
of the AI investment applications or
28:13
services like things where they make
28:15
micro investments based on you know I
28:18
have a few little bits of change every
28:21
day that I want to invest every time I
28:23
make a purchase or by the end of the day
28:25
I want to invest five dollars a day
28:27
take it and be smart with it and go
28:29
these are things are great applications
28:32
for it because they're not you keeping
28:35
the risk the risk of it contained so
28:38
it's not something that might not set
28:40
loose and just take all your money and
28:41
just do just I don't know just go
28:43
somewhere and any does this task is like
28:47
the whole artificial intelligence thing
28:49
the AI naming I don't like it very very
28:53
much to be honest because
28:55
because it's is really an intelligence
28:58
ya know because it's the opposite is
29:00
because it is my problem was with the
29:02
artificial part because it is
29:03
intelligent is doing something and yeah
29:06
you give it a task queue perform that
29:08
task like this like doing day trades and
29:11
this kind of stuff and I think that's
29:12
great because Danny works for everyone
29:14
and people can benefit out of it so I
29:17
really like those applications they're
29:19
my only I'm only afraid of the
29:20
large-scale ones but but it's at most a
29:23
I technically just a large set of data
29:27
and complex if-else heads
29:31
patterns and not really a true
29:34
intelligence that it has like a neural
29:36
network that analyzes it and like it
29:38
spans itself as to me that's what AI is
29:41
it's not just you know what I initially
29:45
explained like what what are you like
29:47
how do you define the app yourself
29:49
actually so what is AI is more
29:52
philosophical question than a technical
29:53
question yeah yeah I guess it's like it
29:56
goes all the artificial on what is
29:58
intelligence what is a person what is
30:00
humanity but but you want to mention
30:06
about if schnauzers that's that's the
30:09
main the main way that machine learning
30:12
in deep learning nai is differ from
30:14
normal programming because instead of
30:16
writing the rules you give it the
30:18
results and then from the results you
30:20
figure out weights to should get there
30:23
again and then build decision trees and
30:25
all that so you actually don't build if
30:27
analysis and you just say like hey this
30:30
is there's actually a very good website
30:33
that goes the for called is called a
30:35
visual guide to machine learning it's
30:37
awesome I can send the link and then you
30:39
can put in the show notes cuz it just
30:42
gives this great explanation on how
30:44
exactly this structure works but it's
30:46
not a bunch of ifs analysis because it's
30:48
learning like a person would do of
30:53
course but then when you get to the dip
30:55
learning in this neural network port
30:57
that's the part where you don't have
30:59
control over it and the machine itself
31:01
can keep creating new nodes and making
31:03
new decisions that you never know about
31:05
and that would be more like in
31:08
elegent kind of thing but I'm not sure
31:11
with there yet and if we are even if we
31:14
are we probably don't know because we
31:16
don't know how to actually put it in a
31:18
box and define it so it's kind of weird
31:20
I'm sure that's around the corner yeah
31:23
probably
31:24
probably I mean this things happen so
31:26
fast man is and because if you look at
31:29
like movie predictions and stuff from
31:32
years ago a lot of them are very off
31:35
like I don't have my flying skateboard
31:36
but a lot of them actually fell short
31:40
there's a movie it's called minority
31:42
Minority Report
31:43
yeah with Tom Cruise yeah best movie
31:46
he's ever made no questions and the
31:49
movies like this weird thing where they
31:50
predict crime before he happens in to
31:53
arrest people they predict this to like
31:56
2050 something but we actually can do
31:59
this nowadays and it's kind of creepy oh
32:02
yeah our last guest Laura was just
32:05
talking about that house there was a
32:07
bunch of protesters that preists yeah
32:11
that they pre arrested that they thought
32:13
they were causing trouble during the
32:14
roar wedding which arresting people
32:18
that's yeah well there's also um who was
32:22
it the the woman who works at for
32:24
chick-fil-a she wrote that AI app that
32:28
basically you could take a picture of
32:30
someone and determine if you're at risk
32:33
she made this app of what it was a very
32:36
simple AI app that she made
32:38
do you remember Fredrik I'm talking
32:40
about I'm trying to look up to see who
32:42
you were talking about but I mean that
32:44
sort of stuff is like is I mean just
32:46
like that board detection like
32:48
determining someone who's lying to me I
32:50
come up to this screen that is asking me
32:52
questions I'm like why am why is that's
32:58
oh that was Keisha Williams Brian
33:00
oh yeah Keisha I love Keith Yackey she's
33:02
awesome
33:03
yes yeah she wrote that thing and yeah
33:05
that's that's that's creepy yeah went in
33:07
it was like a live Twitter thing so you
33:09
could go into it and then you could send
33:12
it down and would send you a picture but
33:13
or the information back from the picture
33:15
to give you like oh you know this is
33:17
this or this is that just making some
33:18
guesses that's again content but
33:22
creepy yeah so a lot of movies and stuff
33:26
like fell short like this movie because
33:28
they predicted it to be this thing and
33:30
you tells in whatever something and we
33:32
doing it already yeah that stuff
33:35
actually good and we don't need psychics
33:39
I mean yeah the better part I would like
33:42
that but do you want to just sit in the
33:45
bathtub all day with your head shaved
33:47
and predict crime
33:48
bring me a pie something happened in New
33:52
Jersey right that's funny so uh what you
34:01
know if Brian if you don't mind me
34:04
jumping off this topic hopping on to
34:06
something else are you okay so what I
34:08
wanted to ask you before is and I think
34:10
this is pretty interesting I want to ask
34:11
you about this thing that you wrote in
34:13
your LinkedIn buyout that huge ice tree
34:16
you say this in quoting I strongly
34:18
believe that knowledge should be shared
34:20
so in my spare time I speak at
34:23
conferences universities schools and
34:26
write articles on design web development
34:29
and machine learning so first you know I
34:32
want to dive into what kind of things
34:34
that you speak about I want to talk
34:37
about some of the places because you
34:38
cite universities and schools not just
34:40
conferences but really I want to know
34:43
where you got this interest in sharing
34:47
knowledge and where does that come from
34:49
it comes a lot from because me
34:53
personally I don't have I don't have a
34:55
degree I don't have a formal education
34:56
on anything so everything I learn and
35:00
other things that I do I just
35:01
I don't like googled it and now I know
35:05
now I'm a professional in some of them
35:07
and that's because someone put stuff out
35:11
there and I could learn from it and so
35:14
it was there for free up for grabs and I
35:16
grabbed it of course I have like the
35:19
privilege of having access to the
35:21
internet and so on so it's not entirely
35:23
free and for everyone but I strongly
35:26
believe that the more we put out there
35:28
the more we can help people on
35:31
understanding any topic or just
35:33
developing their careers or finding
35:35
means of making money to help their
35:38
families that's great and we don't need
35:40
fancy universities for that we don't
35:43
need fancy schools we don't we just
35:44
sometimes you just need like tell
35:47
someone it's possible and and just show
35:51
them an example and that's already
35:53
enough in a bunch of the cases so I
35:55
think that's where it comes from I love
35:57
that yeah it's it's it's just like you
35:59
said man it's all about community
36:00
because I I think a lot of us in this
36:03
industry in pretty much any industry in
36:06
the technical realm you get so much from
36:09
community you know you can you know you
36:12
could watch a podcast like this or you
36:14
could go to something like user
36:16
defenders and hear all the great guests
36:18
that jason has or you could watch key
36:20
framers and learn how to do some CSS
36:23
grid and things like that and like all
36:25
that stuff's out there like you said for
36:26
free if you have the privilege of being
36:28
able to access the Internet but it being
36:31
able to Google or you know what I mean
36:35
like be able to do the own research your
36:37
own research and and more importantly
36:39
have that drive within yourself to to
36:41
want to learn to want to spend the time
36:43
and make yourself a little bit better
36:46
and help better the lives of those that
36:49
you care for like having that within you
36:51
is pretty important yeah like you you
36:54
buy well you mention like having because
36:57
yeah you can google it but you have to
37:00
neat you want it you need interest
37:02
before and that's and that's where I
37:05
think I I try to make a difference more
37:08
because there are hundred other people
37:10
that are way better all these things
37:12
that I say that I do that they can
37:14
explain it way better and teach people
37:16
way better but the maybe there are not a
37:20
lot of people just telling people that
37:21
this is available so just like removing
37:24
the magic out of it you know in a way
37:26
and just sound like hate this is here
37:28
like with the conferences and schools
37:31
and stuff I like become France's they're
37:34
fun
37:34
it's nice you go up in a stage with like
37:36
people filming and all that things it's
37:38
nice it feels good but going to like I
37:41
school in my my home country or going
37:44
and speaking of conference or like a
37:46
small meet up somewhere that
37:49
have like a very well-developed you wax
37:52
your design scene and just telling just
37:54
showing what is what is out there I see
37:56
a lot a lot of value in that and that's
37:59
what I really like did you go to Brazil
38:01
did you speak there and yeah I went back
38:07
twice yep twice to speak one was like a
38:10
very small event and was with the people
38:14
that are not like exactly in the
38:15
industry but more interest so I went
38:18
there and I spoke about this door design
38:20
and you wax and a be testing then I went
38:25
back again but to talk more on like how
38:30
to how you can scale design and research
38:33
in a way that's not expensive so
38:35
basically for people that work in in
38:36
companies I don't have a lot of means
38:38
how you can actually get user input in a
38:41
cheap and fast way that you you don't
38:43
need you don't need all those fancy
38:45
things that all the arabes in booking
38:47
outcomes do you can't just do other
38:50
things and that was a there was a lot of
38:52
it so I did that in Brazil yeah we're
38:57
giving you some room bro making it
39:03
awkward
39:06
okay
39:09
no no schools do you speak at or besides
39:15
obviously you said in Brazil like we're
39:18
we're in Amsterdam or over around in
39:21
Europe that you also talk at you said
39:23
universities for example let's let's
39:25
talk about universities yeah for
39:27
universities I did most of like
39:29
organized by universities I did in
39:32
Brazil but there are other other
39:35
conferences that are held in
39:37
universities and they most of the people
39:39
are from schools and stuff like the one
39:40
we spoke at in Florida that was very
39:43
like focus on folks that might not be in
39:45
the area and already like designers or
39:47
just want to develop more and those are
39:50
the kind of things that I like the most
39:51
here in Amsterdam I was talking to you
39:53
I'm still talking to the designs of this
39:57
forgot names like University of School
40:00
in arts and something and they have this
40:02
design program
40:03
and they like when people from the
40:04
industry go there and talk to people
40:06
they're like just starting on them on
40:09
their degrees and stuff but yeah but the
40:12
other than that I went to Russia I
40:14
spoken in Moscow in a for-profit people
40:18
enough for designers so again just
40:20
making my problem their problems and
40:22
then miss temple as well it was also
40:24
like a more community driven event for
40:28
people that want to get in the industry
40:30
and want to know what's out there now
40:31
are you invited to these or you just
40:34
seek them out and yeah you just just
40:37
walk in you're like I'm here a bunch of
40:45
these cutters of this conference they
40:46
have this call for papers before and you
40:48
can apply but then you applied to one
40:50
and then this person knows this person
40:52
then you get to like it and then it
40:54
becomes like you start connecting to
40:56
people and then at some point it just
40:57
like getting invites from other people
41:00
to go to conferences and stuff but I do
41:02
I do apply to the ones that I like the
41:05
mission because one thing that I do not
41:08
do is charge for conferences so I don't
41:12
events and stuff to go speak there and
41:14
if they offer something is like I'll
41:17
rather get tickets and just give to give
41:19
the tickets out to other communities or
41:21
people that cannot afford and stuff like
41:23
that so I like to pick the the places
41:25
that I other events that I spoke at as I
41:28
speak at so I so to make sure that we
41:31
are in the same page on why we're doing
41:34
this so that's a great way to give back
41:37
you know since we're talking about that
41:39
we should probably also talk about your
41:41
next speaking engagement where what
41:44
conference are you gonna be at next what
41:45
so let's promote that and talk about it
41:47
yeah so because I change jobs recently I
41:50
gave it a pause of focusing in two big
41:53
things that once it's kind of hard sure
41:56
I was like I paused for a little bit but
41:58
I'll probably be coming back as of next
42:01
year because
42:02
finishing writing a bunch of new content
42:04
on designing machine learning and AI
42:06
ethics biases and all this kind of stuff
42:09
so I'll be putting them out in a more
42:11
consistent basis and then I'll be I'll
42:13
have more time and headspace to do this
42:16
again because it's
42:17
it is consuming and right now with the
42:19
new job and just getting my head around
42:20
the financial industry which is a new
42:22
industry for me it's taking a lot of
42:24
energy so I put a list for these here
42:26
put it on pause but probably as a like
42:29
January or February I'll be back in the
42:31
game and just be speaking regularly
42:33
again and I know a lot of the I love you
42:35
don't realize to do a talk I mean it can
42:38
sometimes to prepare it can take a lot
42:41
of time it can take hours days you know
42:44
write it all out doing the slides
42:46
exactly and if you have to travel like
42:49
when I went to Florida is like a it's
42:51
more two-way flights for a 14 hour each
42:54
leg and you have that time they're gonna
42:56
be there so that becomes a week and then
42:58
become like it's it takes a lot of
43:01
energy so you need to have need to be a
43:03
no right frame of mind to do this kind
43:05
of stuff you should create art will fit
43:06
artificial intelligence slides that just
43:10
automatically change with it when it
43:12
thinks that you're done with okay he
43:15
wants to go through that slide now it's
43:16
going together that's a great idea
43:19
actually oh my god a startup idea you
43:27
know I was gonna ask you I know that you
43:30
are a musician as well and we were
43:34
talking to someone a little bit ago
43:35
about how you should a good way for
43:38
people to not get stressed out about
43:41
what they do is to diversify their
43:44
passions and you know not just belong to
43:47
say one community like this is what I do
43:49
all day I'm in front of a screen and
43:51
that that's who I am but also to step
43:54
away from that and have you know a quote
43:57
unquote another life that's doing
43:59
something else that you could put some
44:01
of your heart and soul into and I think
44:04
probably being a musician and playing
44:06
helps you get away from from all this
44:08
and I don't want to use the term but
44:12
I'll say unplug and get on your acoustic
44:16
guitar and play some song so you said
44:18
you would agree to play good 45 minutes
44:20
for us right
44:20
oh yeah ii will get my guitar over here
44:25
electric guitar Frederick he can't
44:28
unplug it was a
44:30
to make that joke this time so yeah it
44:35
is a great way cuz I got home and then
44:38
my wife also plays or sometimes we just
44:40
sit down winning and go to play stuff
44:42
and in record videos together and we
44:44
ride together and stuff so just like get
44:47
off the computer get off the other AI
44:49
taking over the world worries and just
44:51
going into this kind of different thing
44:54
and I'm also doing something with my
44:56
hands that I know that's not typing
44:58
which is great so it's it's an awesome
45:02
way to employ yeah I wouldn't consider
45:03
myself a musician per se because music
45:06
like all the other stuff I just learned
45:09
by myself and I do things that I just
45:11
because you've learned it by yourself
45:13
doesn't mean anything like you didn't go
45:15
to a musician school or whatever it's
45:17
called you didn't go to that Fame high
45:18
school I mean you're I think you're a
45:20
really good musician if and we'll we'll
45:23
put a link in the show notes to your
45:25
youtube channel and people could hear
45:27
like I can't get that song out of my
45:28
head though the the Christmas song like
45:38
every all day I was like in meetings and
45:40
I'm like it's really good good that's
45:47
Katie's good it's really catchy man yeah
45:50
how about one song you plays a little
45:52
bit yeah I know I don't know what to
46:03
play how about that song Christmas song
46:09
it's in a different tuning so I don't
46:11
have to hold a guitar
46:13
hi Nancy Ken
46:15
[Music]
46:23
- play hide-and-seek way those feelings
46:31
and memories
46:39
[Music]
46:43
and it goes like that like a mother trim
46:45
unit super awesome doing great
46:49
oh wait oh joy when an album on Spotify
46:52
yeah that's it goes with the thing that
46:55
you just said because I'm always my wife
46:58
keep spending like you should record you
46:59
should record you have like hundreds of
47:01
songs and stuff but I have this it's
47:06
gonna sound silly and it's gonna sound
47:07
weird but I have this thing that I'm
47:09
afraid that because my wife loves it she
47:12
thinks his dishing she thinks too all my
47:14
songs are great and she thinks everyone
47:16
is gonna love them as well and I'm
47:17
afraid that she's right and that lets
47:20
say I'll record something and he it's
47:22
actually people like it and for some
47:24
reason it becomes a job and then I take
47:26
the joy out of it I don't know it's it's
47:28
weird I don't think that's weird I
47:32
totally understand what you're saying
47:34
and I completely appreciate it
47:36
you know obviously on the other side of
47:38
the token you know I still want to hear
47:40
at night you know people could argue
47:41
both ways to say oh you're crazy put it
47:43
out there let's see what happens but I
47:45
mean yeah you just want to just put it
47:47
out there just for fun what what do you
47:50
do if a label came up to you as like hey
47:54
we want to give you twelve million
47:56
dollars to make an album be like I'm
48:00
sorry it's it's it's deep in my heart
48:03
it's something I mean everything does
48:08
have a price tag so I think I would do
48:14
it I would do it just to see what what
48:16
what the hell would happen but it's not
48:18
something that I seek or anything it was
48:21
in the past but nowadays I just I don't
48:23
know it's just it's a different thing
48:25
for me right now
48:26
did you used to have a group of people
48:29
or a band or anything like that well
48:31
yeah yeah yeah I did like when I was at
48:34
15 or 16 I had I'm a punk rock kid and I
48:38
I write and like political very
48:42
political songs and all that so I had
48:44
like a punk rock band back back in
48:45
Brazil like years ago and we were
48:47
playing in a few states in Duryea in
48:50
Brazil but like very small a touring
48:52
like Garage Band kind of touring and but
48:55
though my dream was to make it as like a
48:58
musician and be like one of the big punk
49:01
rock singers in Brazil and stuff so yeah
49:04
at some point it was a thing but I think
49:07
I kind of I have something other goals
49:10
right now what do you want to be big if
49:13
you ended up being a big musician would
49:15
you want to be a US big Europe big
49:18
Brazil big like where do you want to be
49:20
the musician is it still your home or
49:24
depends like if it's with the acoustic
49:26
folk stuff that I play nowadays it has
49:28
more market like Europe
49:30
Iroquois but if it was like the
49:33
punk-rock stuff I really want to send
49:36
some messages to Brazilian politicians
49:38
so I would I would I would rather do it
49:40
in Brazil and kick some pas and all that
49:44
who did you listen to growing up what
49:46
was your inspiration oh there's a lot of
49:50
stuff like Brazil and old Bank punk rock
49:53
stuff there's a been in Brazil called
49:54
that fish which is great the name just
49:57
gives it away that's like a bunch of
49:58
kids screaming stuff and my dad is a big
50:03
fan of like Brazilian we call like MPB
50:08
it's like a Brazilian popular music but
50:10
it's not like popular popular like pop
50:12
but old Brazilian kind of thing I don't
50:15
know how to find it but it was very like
50:17
focus in Brazil so yeah you mean like
50:21
politically now pull it yeah politically
50:23
there's some really good like punk
50:25
rockers and in bands like hot was
50:27
Geppetto which is like underground rats
50:30
or something and and this band like dead
50:33
fish and our there blank in my head
50:37
now but these are mostly political
50:39
hardcore stuff and for my dad I got a
50:42
lot of the like more chill guitar kind
50:46
of bossa nova by kind of thing that that
50:49
I got more for my dad that's awesome so
50:53
what about what let me ask you that we
50:56
were talking about music where are you
50:58
getting your inspiration for
51:00
say you work now like who do you look at
51:03
as far as this is a hero in my work or
51:07
my professional life I mean musically or
51:12
no no I mean I mean in your professional
51:14
life not musically okay
51:16
professional holy that's a good one
51:19
you don't want to say hero maybe an
51:22
organization that you look at for
51:23
inspiration like you know you might go
51:25
to this in this or you know a I listen
51:28
to this on NPR or you know that I like
51:31
this website it goes to Thunder nerds
51:33
being come on on anything
51:35
Oh Oh Thunder nerds as everyone should I
51:40
become after people ask me similar
51:43
questions before and I mean crystally I
51:45
more and more don't have an answer to it
51:48
because the way that consuming content
51:50
nowadays is more like I go picking up
51:53
things everywhere just to try a bit like
51:56
unbiased myself a little bit but I do I
52:01
do listen a lot to to to Vox they have
52:04
to have their YouTube channel their
52:06
podcast and it's very very interesting
52:08
and they talk a lot of own on YouTube
52:10
they have a lot of a lot of stuff about
52:12
science about they have a show called
52:14
borders I love this insanely great so
52:19
you love that I really like it and they
52:22
have their daily podcast as well there I
52:25
listen to you every day today explain so
52:28
that's this part but design-wise oh
52:30
design life design life is one that I
52:32
listen a lot it's with Charlie that you
52:34
guys talk to her yeah yeah Charlie and
52:37
femke yeah and I'm a community very
52:41
great lot of great people in their
52:42
community yeah and then the podcast is
52:45
great and it's it's good for me because
52:47
they they talk a lot about like stuff
52:50
for people that are beginning their
52:51
careers and stuff that's I might have
52:54
like lost touch with and it's sometimes
52:56
a very good reminder of things that I
52:58
might not think a lot about a lot about
53:00
it all the time and also other how
53:03
people get anything to do and should
53:05
introduce to the area now are seeing
53:08
things so I really like that point of
53:10
view technology-wise I love the char
53:14
our podcasts it's a tech podcast podcast
53:17
with Owen he used to be a writer for The
53:19
Next Web and some other big outlets and
53:22
it's it's really good and it's very good
53:24
yeah I think those those are the things
53:26
I don't I don't think I have a company
53:28
that I look up to very much
53:32
I really like the gitlab because they're
53:34
very open and I really like the openness
53:38
and they're like they're truly open
53:39
because I once when when I was like
53:42
looking into movie jobs and so on I
53:44
asked a question to someone and and the
53:47
recruiter is like oh yeah I asked the
53:48
question internally and then she just
53:50
sent me the link so like an issue in
53:52
their own HR board that was it's on the
53:55
internet and it go like holy yeah
53:57
that's that's transparency next level
54:00
and that's something that I I'm very I'm
54:03
very fond of and yeah I think those
54:06
those are some of the companies that are
54:09
things that I look up to in companies
54:11
and so on nice Brian um oh I'll actually
54:15
like to do I know Janelle is not here
54:17
I'd like to take a little bit of time to
54:19
do like a brief light in the around if
54:22
yeah go ahead start off um they this is
54:26
a if you did have a monkey what would
54:29
you name it Jonathan
54:36
I think is a great name what's your
54:39
favorite video game that you're playing
54:40
right now spider-man it's great
54:42
what's something you're addicted to oh
54:49
there's so many things it's not video
54:54
games I think it's that's hard I think
55:01
reading reading because I read way too
55:04
much no not just like books and stuff
55:06
but like articles I'm all that sometimes
55:09
it's a bit unhealthy my will to keep
55:12
myself updated and I might be a little
55:15
bit addicted to that and Twitter then
55:18
I'm asked what's your favorite thing
55:20
that you're reading right now coach Rome
55:23
app it's a book about cultures and how
55:27
communication flow
55:28
between peoples from different
55:30
backgrounds and different countries it's
55:31
very good especially if you work in a
55:32
company that is international it's
55:34
really really good so far I haven't
55:36
finished it food of favorite food of
55:39
choice rice and beans very Brazilian
55:44
what is your favorite thing about
55:47
yourself doesn't matter how bad things
55:56
are I think I can still have a good
55:58
laugh at it and I think that's that's
56:00
good keeps me sane and also the people
56:03
around me so that's one yeah
56:06
tea or coffee coffee 100 percent if you
56:13
walked into your house and you saw a
56:16
ghost what would you do
56:20
maybe charge rent and just ask to stay
56:23
because I have questions ok I want to
56:33
ask Mike my quick spotlight question if
56:36
you're down with that Fredrik yeah yeah
56:37
it's up to Pedro yeah I know we're
56:39
running short on time and it's like his
56:41
one-on-one in the morning so this is
56:45
this question it's kind of a group of
56:47
question its kind of to get to know you
56:49
a little bit and we go first you go last
56:52
they say that everyone has a book in
56:56
them what would your book be about ok ok
57:02
you go first Brian and I know the
57:04
pressure is on and I didn't think about
57:06
this question so I just kind of came up
57:08
with it
57:09
um I think mine would actually be about
57:11
I actually have books that I'm writing
57:15
so but the the main one I'm most
57:17
passionate about is about poverty and
57:19
immigration and like that the homeless
57:23
people and the things that they the
57:25
trials they go through and that you know
57:27
what their day-to-day is like and that
57:29
would probably be whether it be about
57:30
Frederick mines easy I'm gonna do a hard
57:34
ditto because I feel the same kind you
57:36
know you could what me all you want but
57:38
I feel luckily exactly the same way
57:41
about
57:42
you do on that subject we've had that
57:43
conversation to give patron
57:51
[Laughter]
57:57
so is this is if there was a book about
57:59
a book about myself what would it be
58:01
about
58:02
they say that everyone has a book in
58:04
them
58:05
what would you you would write be about
58:08
okay book in me okay about doing the
58:19
things you're not supposed to I think
58:22
because of everything that led me to
58:29
where I am is doing things people told
58:31
me I couldn't or that I shouldn't and
58:34
literally everything that let me here is
58:37
about this and yeah I have a passion
58:40
about this on the WoW because oh you're
58:45
you're not born in this country so you
58:47
can do things this way or you're not
58:50
from a specific subset of society so you
58:54
shouldn't do those things you didn't get
58:56
a college education I had lots of you
59:03
can't and in my life and I just raised a
59:07
gigantic middle finger to all of them so
59:09
I think that there will be the thing I
59:11
will write about that was just like
59:12
doing what you're not supposed to was
59:16
that finger that we saw was that what
59:18
that was what I mean I think that's
59:23
that's super sincere and I think
59:25
everybody could really get a big lesson
59:28
than that because we all have those
59:29
moments where it's either you know that
59:31
self doubt or something like that and
59:34
you know it's hard to overcome but it's
59:37
it's really about if you want to do it
59:39
just you know don't don't listen to you
59:41
know that she voice in your head telling
59:42
you don't or those shitty people telling
59:45
you you don't ignore those flesh walls
59:47
and step right on through and you know
59:50
find your success and own your own
59:53
reality and and I guess with
59:56
that we have one last question that we
59:58
love to ask everybody and because we're
60:00
right at the end here I want to be
60:01
respectful of your time is if you have
60:03
any kind of final words for our audience
60:06
maybe you want to say something to the
60:07
the designers out there coming up in the
60:09
industry or as something about one of
60:11
your talk something about AI any kind of
60:13
just final words of wisdom I think
60:18
there's more to people that are maybe
60:21
they're not even listening because in
60:22
our area but people there may be just
60:23
getting started or not in the in the on
60:27
the design ward that you don't need to
60:30
comply to all those cliches of what a
60:34
designer is and what a designer looks
60:36
like a designer is not about that and
60:40
it's at yeah I think that's that's
60:42
basically it just those things those
60:45
people on Twitter and those design gurus
60:48
and those dribble Famers don't fall for
60:52
that just do your thing did the best you
60:55
can and just make a difference somehow
60:57
and that the thing that's enough that's
61:00
finally I love that man that's great hey
61:02
what's the obviously we will put links
61:05
in the show notes but what's the best
61:06
way people could get ahold of you where
61:07
do you want them to go Twitter 100% I'm
61:10
always there way more than I should and
61:12
your Twitter handle is should I always
61:15
forget I think is a Iman our babies pre
61:18
marques like Mike marques yeah Bri
61:22
marques yeah
61:23
nice all right great well hey Pedro
61:25
thank you so so much for one just you
61:29
know staying up late and spending the
61:32
time and to just really sharing and
61:35
opening up and helping us all you know
61:39
understand ourselves a little bit better
61:40
and the community and what's going on in
61:43
the tech and design world really
61:45
appreciate it brother
61:45
I appreciate the space I appreciate the
61:48
invite and everything this is really
61:49
really really awesome and I'm really
61:51
happy that I that I could be part of
61:53
this so yeah thank you
61:54
oh thanks man and just to everybody out
61:57
there we've got one more show coming up
61:59
for this season for season three and
62:01
it's this Saturday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern
62:04
Standard Time and please go to the
62:06
YouTube so like we said the iTunes and I
62:09
Thunder nerds dot IO / review give us a
62:11
review good a gun calm / Thunder nerds
62:14
Brian that's pretty much it
62:18
bye everybody love you bye bye noodles